plight of redditch

Bob Marley wrote:?

This is not the first time in recent days that you have responded to a post with a simple "?".

When questioned directly.... yet again, you simply reply with "?"... it's your equivalent of "no comment"!

In your own words….. “Now..what do you think? what level are Sporting? The model they have is a simple one and the quicker the Reds follow this way the better”

It wasn’t simple and it wasn’t quick to achieve!

You promote the ideology of the 'Bromsgrove' model as being the way forward. Indeed, I believe that the Sporting model probably is the way forward. But you forget to mention that Sporting & Rovers are not the same club. Sporting is the Phoenix that has arisen from the flames that was the death of Bromsgrove Rovers. Bromsgrove Rovers was a club that was as old and as historic as we were….probably more so. It was a club that endured a prolonged, inevitable and painful end. Their struggle and death, despite the club being fantastically well supported, was the direct result of years / decades of mismanagement. Tom Herbert had offer after offer to sell Rovers to their supporters trust. He chose not to. He had a vested interest for prolonging the life of Bromsgrove Rovers. Their fans saw through it.

I wholly agree that following the Bromsgrove model, the model you have praised, is the only possible way forward. But please be aware that many of us on here, are intelligent and informed enough, to know most of the facts that are relevant…not just those facts that you pick and choose to mention.

rawlings09 wrote:

del boy wrote:And don’t worry about having to stand on a terrace amongst people like me…I have no interest in attending another game for the foreseeable future.

Nothing like a Die Hard fan!

I am a die hard fan; the sequal in the airport was my favourite.

And when you have been to as many games as I have, you can include yourself in the same bracket....

I dissagree, the one with the Taxi is my favorite

Don't Die Hard fans stick with the club no matter what? No matter how bad things get... No matter how dissillusioned they are...

I may not have been to as many games as you,and may not be a "Die Hard 3" fan, but i'm still going.

Rawlings, I’ve long been of the opinion that the reason why so many football clubs are knee deep in it, is simply because there are those who are in charge of football clubs, that are arrogant and ignorant enough to believe that the normal rules of business do not apply to them. Recent history only shows that there is an ever growing list of fallen clubs who have met their end while ‘chasing the dream’. That should have been an effective deterrent to deter others…but it hasn‘t stopped the spread of recklessness!

The reality is that football clubs are a business like any other. But football is a business that does enjoy customer loyalty unlike any other!! Football fans that show unequivocal devotion to their club are taken advantage of; they can be seen as mugs and an easy touch by those in charge.

For me, I simply no longer see the point in paying to watch something that I no longer enjoy.
That said, my disinterest is not limited to watching or not watching the Reds; I’m generally lacking enthusiam for the game as a whole.

not just those facts that you pick and choose to mention.[i]

Dear Mr Boy.

When I am lost for words, I reply with a ?

I have done that twice recently, once after Mr Fingers post which I personally found confrontational.
I have absolutely no problem with Andy (well, except his players scores!), we have travelled to many away games together and will do in the future. I just found his post too much at this fragile time and disagreed with his comments.

The second time is after your recent post.
My point about the Bromsgrove Sporting model is based on the following:
1. Solid business plan (please see submission to Bromsgrove District Council ref: lease agreement)
2. Club ran by supporters. I do not think that is possible at the Reds as we do not have many dedicated fans with time on their hands, but we should include them in the 'management' of the club, as I have suggested in a previous post.
3. Good communication updated by team management on who is in / out / injured / transferred etc.
4. Refurbished club house with regular events generating cash.
5. Clear fund raising activities (lottery etc).
6. Cheap entry ($3).
7. Family friendly
8. Council involvement
9. Prudent financial management

This was a short list of the model we should be adopting...to be honest, exactly what was proposed in the Plan B working model.
Plan B is a no-goer now as most people involved have decided to move onto other things (their decision), but the business plan is there and seeing how our colleagues down the road are improving using the foundations, I still believe we could do worse than put it in place to help in our current plight.

If I remember Del, you disagreed with Plan B...so I think we will have to agree to disagree on everything!
What I do know is that I have financially played a part in the club being alive today and still maintain a season ticket even though I can not make the games.
I believe you should never give up and applaud the decision to operate within our means. OK, the outstanding debts will take time to reduce, but with prudent financial control (as now) this can make our club debt free in 3-5 years...at what price you say?
The price of having a club to support for the many years to come.

What I do know is that I have financially played a part in the club being alive today and still maintain a season ticket even though I can not make the games.


Careful Steve, you know how upset certain users get when you mention you've actually done something for the club.

porrohman wrote:What I do know is that I have financially played a part in the club being alive today and still maintain a season ticket even though I can not make the games.


Careful Steve, you know how upset certain users get when you mention you've actually done something for the club.

Is the TRUST a member of the Football Trust? If not I fear they will struggle to form a new team & at the moment I can't see a solution to our current predicament.

"Dear Mr Boy.

When I am lost for words, I reply with a ?

I have done that twice recently, once after Mr Fingers post which I personally found confrontational."

Mr Marley,

Fingers post was not confrontational at all. Evidently, I was not alone in agreeing with every single word he wrote in that post. Whether intended or not, you have become the figurehead of the TRUST / plan B ‘movement‘. Being lost for words and replying with a ? just seems at odds with the normal contributions you make. A figurehead has to accept the views of others……you can’t just simply choose to ignore them. Your spot on when you say that we'll have to agree to disagree on everything!!!! That said, I'd still rather read your opinion than a ?.

"The second time is after your recent post.
My point about the Bromsgrove Sporting model is based on the following:
1. Solid business plan (please see submission to Bromsgrove District Council ref: lease agreement)
2. Club ran by supporters. I do not think that is possible at the Reds as we do not have many dedicated fans with time on their hands, but we should include them in the 'management' of the club, as I have suggested in a previous post.
3. Good communication updated by team management on who is in / out / injured / transferred etc.
4. Refurbished club house with regular events generating cash.
5. Clear fund raising activities (lottery etc).
6. Cheap entry ($3).
7. Family friendly
8. Council involvement
9. Prudent financial management

This was a short list of the model we should be adopting...to be honest, exactly what was proposed in the Plan B working model."

I remember the merits and arguments for Plan B. If I understand your post correctly, then I believe that you want the compromise of the original clubs continuation under a Plan B type management? I simply don’t think that’s possible. The early success of Sporting is surely down to starting with a clean slate?


"OK, the outstanding debts will take time to reduce, but with prudent financial control (as now) this can make our club debt free in 3-5 years...at what price you say?
The price of having a club to support for the many years to come. "

This here is my big problem. I started a thread that asked for clarity on the financial state of the club. Replies were pretty much non existent. The club has been crippled by historic debt for longer than I can remember. On the path we are on, with falling attendances and revenues, I can’t see how the club can cover the everyday costs of ground rent, utility bills, league fees and coach travel……..not to mention the reduction of huge, historic debts. I can only see debts getting worse not better. Can anyone present a convincing argument of why, while following this path, the clubs crippling, historic debts will be eliminated in 3-5 years? In the absence of anything that can convince me to the contrary, I can only conclude that many of you are simply burying your heads in the sand. I will enjoy no pleasure if I’m proved right; indeed I hope that I’m wrong and the club pulls through.

I hardly suggest anyone who contributes to the financial survival of the club is burying their head in the sand.

TRUST members have contributed 2k this season so far...not bad for an organisation only 6 months old.

The financials of the club are not 100% known...this is well documented and until the shareholders disclose otherwise, will remain so.
The TRUST have offered the services of an accountant to help the Directors..I hope this is accepted and then we can ensure the club continues with it's prudent financial approach.

From my 'estimation' the club owes about 30k outside of Directors loans - 6k a year over the next 5 years as most are not linked to interest or inflation (council rent etc).

Just to confirm, there is no figure head in TRUST...all members have ecactly the same contribution.
Just because I am outspoken with my views, does not mean I have to add more or less in any debate.

Actually I did not agree with Fingers Post either, I thought it was confrontational as did a lot more people(who have not said anything as fingers chose to leave) and not helpful given its timing.The last thing we need right now is two sides divided and fingers post I feel was intended to widen that divide, if this is not the case then why did he not come to a trust meeting and air his views there(as you all have the chance too) instead of publicly attacking both the club and the trust and leading to even less people through the gate. If the club is the most important thing in your minds(as you say it is) then why not put your differences away and try and promote the club in a better light? Many of you have slated how fingers was treated? yet some of you did exactly the same to Tracey Rae after her post(double standards), many of you have slated the lack of marketing from both the club and the trust? if you think that better marketing is the key then why do you think slagging the club and trust off publicly is a good thing?(again double standards).
There is NO figure head at TRUST and not one of us has there head buried in the sand, we are ALL aware of the situation hence the amount of money raised to help pay for things like the coach,bills etc. we do however let people work within the strengths they have in order to get the best results hence the fact that you think Steve is the figure head when actually he is just really good at business, The Rawlings are Fantastic at running the Shop and selling, I will be putting entertainment on as I am an ex-Music Promoter and the list goes on.
I have said before that anyone who thinks they can do a better job step up to the mark and do it, don't go on about it on here and give the impression that you know better-prove it. Ideas are great and I think we could write a book with the amount we have on here, its simple, Have an idea bring it to the vote and do it.Don't assume you can write a huge list of ideas and someone else will do it for you, If you can't do it then ask if someone can help with it.
It would have been nice to see the forum full of praise for the new Team/Manager and the performance on Saturday, to see lots of anticipation for the Cup Game tomorrow which could see us in the Final instead of the (now getting infamous) negative brigade Banging the same old Drum of he said she said and spitting dummies like machine gun fire.

Can I make a suggestion?

How about we ALL grow up, stop going over the same old ground, close this thread (especially as it has once again gone majorly off course) and move on.

“The financials of the club are not 100% known...this is well documented and until the shareholders disclose otherwise, will remain so.”


“From my 'estimation' the club owes about 30k outside of Directors loans - 6k a year over the next 5 years as most are not linked to interest or inflation (council rent etc)”

£30,000 is nothing!!!!! If that was the true extent of the clubs debt then we wouldn’t have a problem!!!!

So for all we know, directors loans could amount to £500,000...and that isn’t going to get paid off any time soon!!!

£30.000 may not be nothing to you or a reasonable size club but when you have gates under 200 then i think its alot of money to try and find ontop of other bills,as the other tabs say perhaps we should be getting behind the club,manager and players and giving them our support instead of running down anyone who is trying to help.

That's right, Del..we don't know.

What I do know is that most of the ex-Directors (Pete F, Steve R, Gary W, Neil H etc) would not be seeking their investment back in the short to medium term..I think they are resigned to that...if the club went into Admin, with no tangable assets, the monies recovered would not pay anyone anything.
The brewery loan is underwritten by the ex-Directors so not against the football club (64k), so the figure of c30k is about right.
I remember the comment from Carol Gandy informing us most of the businesses in Redditch owe more than the Reds in terms of rates and ground rents!

We know Steve R put in $90k during his time, but again...I am not sure what documentation is in place as it is not recorded in returns submitted to company house?

With continued financial control, I still believe the 120 year history of Redditch United is worth fighting for and by taking the easy way out would jeopadise the future of the club, in my opinion.

This is why I have said that I believe that there is a vested interest in keeping the club alive. The ex directors know that the longer the club survives, the more they can ultimately claw back. The sooner the club fails, the less they will recover.

In our promotion season, our weekly budget was 3k-4k a week. In our second season in the CN, our playing budget was pushing 5-6k a week. That was not being funded by living within our means!!!! Nor was that budget a charitable donation. That was funded by someone who made an investment that failed; yet they still want their money back on a failed investment!

Perhaps I’m wrong?… this is only my theory! Does anyone else watch Dragons Den? When the dragons are asked to contribute to something that is debt ridden and shrouded in mystery, the response given is usually “ for that reason, I’m out” This is now where I find myself…without a reason to contribute.

Anyhow, I agree that we are now just going around in circles on this matter. I’ve had my say and have nothing new to add to this discussion!! I here on after promise to ‘bite my tongue’ on this thread!