Re: 2011..what a year?

Bob Marley Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:53 am

fingers wrote:
fingers wrote:As I recall Mr Swan said the safety blanket was for the day to day running of the club - he would underwrite those costs and operate on a zero budget if he had to (though he said he didn't foresee that). At that stage there was no playing budget and he didn't make any promises in that regard.

A lot has changed Steve, I just wondered if you, as Chair of TRUST or as an individual, had regular dialogue on these matters with RUFC - full time employees have come and gone since then, there has been a high turnover of playing staff, etc etc.

Are you assuming nothing has changed since those statements or do you know (or have you seen) more than the rest of us? Everything just seems a little disjointed and hidden - feel like Joe Public is missing something here.

I communicate with Mr Swan when I feel the need to.
As always, he answers questions that are asked.
He keeps TRUST informed on relevant activities around the club.
We have a meeting this week to discuss improvements to social activities...normal, healthy debate and action plan.
As always, any member of TRUST is most welcome at the meetings with the club and the last 2 supporters forums were only attended by TRUST members?
Why come on the forum to moan about communication and then not turn up at the open fourms to ask the questions directly?
As always, if you are not able to attend, ask any TRUST member to ask your qyestion on your behalf.

fingers Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:13 am

My point is not about the communication from RUFC - it just seems that you, as Chair of TRUST, seem to know a lot of the inner workings at RUFC.

I am asking whether you are privy to certain details that the average supporter isn't, or whether the positive rhetoric is purely based on believing what you are told and your personal faith in the current board.

When you are telling us how great things are at RUFC, can you substantiate the facts you put across?

I'm not suggesting you are wrong in what you say, I'm just questioning whether your views are supported by anything more tangible than your own beliefs?

Leethall Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:05 am

So the meeting this week Bob is between who? If it is between the club and TRUST who is attending?

Ever since we had a meeting between TRUST and the club a fair few months ago which basically took the stance that TRUST would be looking at paying off the loan and the club wanted to do all & sundry it has basically all gone quiet. Considering I still pay a monthly amount I would like to know what is going on, at present I know my money goes towards paying off the loan, however if TRUST are being engaged with the clubs would like my views represented if a meeting is being held.

Therefore if you are meeting the club where is the communication to TRUST members to say so? I have seen nothing so it appears as if this is just a "select" few which considering the constitution is not right.

Terrace Guy Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:11 am

[quote="Redditchbluenose86"]

in2thevalley wrote:
So...I challenge you all to get behind the club like never before over the next 4 months....I remember Matty Gardener saying the fans are really the 12th man at this level and the buzz in the dressing room after games was fantastic when the CRU was in full voice.

You are spot on Steve. Having been to Evesham and Leamington, it is so noticeable that the fans do provide the lift that is needed. We outsung both sets of fans, and the atmosphere when the second goal went in at Leamington .........PRICELESS.

two highlights......................Redditchbluenose86 and Terrace Guy!!!!!!! I will say no more.

I think I know which one of my moments you're referring to, but I'd love to here TG's moment? Very Happy

[/

I went one step further in my celebrations by legging it on the pitch (with at least one other bloke) to celebrate with the players. That's before failing to make it back over the barrier by a whisker and being frogmarched out by the stewards.
Thing is I know some clubs have fines for that so was probably quite lucky. After hitchiking to the ground with my mate (courtesy of some kind reds fans) after we realised it was even further away from leam than we expected, coupled with the fact that last gasp winners dont often happen supporting Reds and Cov then it just had to be done (especially after a few shandies;-) )

quote]

Leethall Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:14 am

[quote="Terrace Guy"]

Redditchbluenose86 wrote:
in2thevalley wrote:
So...I challenge you all to get behind the club like never before over the next 4 months....I remember Matty Gardener saying the fans are really the 12th man at this level and the buzz in the dressing room after games was fantastic when the CRU was in full voice.

You are spot on Steve. Having been to Evesham and Leamington, it is so noticeable that the fans do provide the lift that is needed. We outsung both sets of fans, and the atmosphere when the second goal went in at Leamington .........PRICELESS.

two highlights......................Redditchbluenose86 and Terrace Guy!!!!!!! I will say no more.
M

I think I know which one of my moments you're referring to, but I'd love to here TG's moment? [/

I went one step further in my celebrations by legging it on the pitch (with at least one other bloke) to celebrate with the players. That's before failing to make it back over the barrier by a whisker and being frogmarched out by the stewards.
Thing is I know some clubs have fines for that so was probably quite lucky. After hitchiking to the ground with my mate (courtesy of some kind reds fans) after we realised it was even further away from leam than we expected, coupled with the fact that last gasp winners dont often happen supporting Reds and Cov then it just had to be done (especially after a few shandies;-) )

quote]

They are not very complimentary on the Leamongton forum for your behaviour!!!

Bob Marley Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:21 am

Leethall wrote:So the meeting this week Bob is between who? If it is between the club and TRUST who is attending?

Ever since we had a meeting between TRUST and the club a fair few months ago which basically took the stance that TRUST would be looking at paying off the loan and the club wanted to do all & sundry it has basically all gone quiet. Considering I still pay a monthly amount I would like to know what is going on, at present I know my money goes towards paying off the loan, however if TRUST are being engaged with the clubs would like my views represented if a meeting is being held.

Therefore if you are meeting the club where is the communication to TRUST members to say so? I have seen nothing so it appears as if this is just a "select" few which considering the constitution is not right.

Leethal.
The meeting this week is a club meeting.
2 members of the TRUST team where invited to input into how the club can improve revenue streams in terms of social events.
We have a big list (from previous meetings/suggestions/postings on this forum etc).
The issue is not what to do (although a race night in December was not the best idea), the issue that Mr Swan wants to discuss is how, who, when....across the whole of the football club, of which TRUST is only 1 part.

At this time, there is no real need for member input until the what,who,when, how is decided by the club.

We have previously presented the activity calendar that was drawn up durng the Plan B activity as a basis of our suggestions.
There is no hidden agenda, no secrets, no 'hush-hush' as in previous times...just an invitation by the Directors for us to be represented at a club meeting.

As said before, we do not have the time/resources to communicate every detail to all members...that is why we elected a team of representatives.

Leethall Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:42 am

Bob Marley wrote:
Leethall wrote:So the meeting this week Bob is between who? If it is between the club and TRUST who is attending?

Ever since we had a meeting between TRUST and the club a fair few months ago which basically took the stance that TRUST would be looking at paying off the loan and the club wanted to do all & sundry it has basically all gone quiet. Considering I still pay a monthly amount I would like to know what is going on, at present I know my money goes towards paying off the loan, however if TRUST are being engaged with the clubs would like my views represented if a meeting is being held.

Therefore if you are meeting the club where is the communication to TRUST members to say so? I have seen nothing so it appears as if this is just a "select" few which considering the constitution is not right.

Leethal.
The meeting this week is a club meeting.
2 members of the TRUST team where invited to input into how the club can improve revenue streams in terms of social events.
We have a big list (from previous meetings/suggestions/postings on this forum etc).
The issue is not what to do (although a race night in December was not the best idea), the issue that Mr Swan wants to discuss is how, who, when....across the whole of the football club, of which TRUST is only 1 part.

At this time, there is no real need for member input until the what,who,when, how is decided by the club.

We have previously presented the activity calendar that was drawn up durng the Plan B activity as a basis of our suggestions.
There is no hidden agenda, no secrets, no 'hush-hush' as in previous times...just an invitation by the Directors for us to be represented at a club meeting.

As said before, we do not have the time/resources to communicate every detail to all members...that is why we elected a team of representatives.

Fair enough. It is not hard to drop an email around to communicate the above or post on the TRUST part of the forum.

Terrace Guy Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:38 pm

Leethal,

I can accept that and apologise to any Leam or indeed Reds fans who were offended at me going on the pitch.

UP THE REDS

rawlings09 Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:41 pm

Terrace Guy wrote:Leethal,

I can accept that and apologise to any Leam or indeed Reds fans who were offended at me going on the pitch.

UP THE REDS

Fair play to you mate, i thought it was class!

Leethall Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:43 pm

Terrace Guy wrote:Leethal,

I can accept that and apologise to any Leam or indeed Reds fans who were offended at me going on the pitch.

UP THE REDS

Doesn't bother me mate, wish I had seen it!

fingers Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:06 am

fingers wrote:My point is not about the communication from RUFC - it just seems that you, as Chair of TRUST, seem to know a lot of the inner workings at RUFC.

I am asking whether you are privy to certain details that the average supporter isn't, or whether the positive rhetoric is purely based on believing what you are told and your personal faith in the current board.

When you are telling us how great things are at RUFC, can you substantiate the facts you put across?

I'm not suggesting you are wrong in what you say, I'm just questioning whether your views are supported by anything more tangible than your own beliefs?

Bob Marley Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:03 am

fingers wrote:
fingers wrote:My point is not about the communication from RUFC - it just seems that you, as Chair of TRUST, seem to know a lot of the inner workings at RUFC.

I am asking whether you are privy to certain details that the average supporter isn't, or whether the positive rhetoric is purely based on believing what you are told and your personal faith in the current board. Not really. I go to the supporters forums. I read the minutes of TRUST meetings with the Directors. I call/mail Mr Swan from time to time (he always replies) and I speak to other TRUST members after every game. I don't think I know anymore than you do at Romulus. At the end of the day, I personally am very satisifed with the interaction between TRUST and Mr Swan.

When you are telling us how great things are at RUFC, can you substantiate the facts you put across? Great? are you talking about the finances? Yes, I do know the club is debt free...we were involved in all of the debt reduction actions to make the deal happen (especially with the council). I personally pay a fincance company $326.99 per month on behalf of TRUST for a $24k debt that we negotiated down to $15k. The previous Directors agreed to pay $800 per month..paid the 1st installment and then defaulted. We prevented a winding up order by taking on this debt during the takeover. Would the current Directors take out a loan the club couldn't afford to pay....I very mch doubt it.
If you are referring to the playing side, I think Mr Hyde is doing a great job...settled side, team ethic, good results in a very tough league (ala Sourbridge/Totton efforts in FA Cup)

I'm not suggesting you are wrong in what you say, I'm just questioning whether your views are supported by anything more tangible than your own beliefs? My views are my views...but I only work in facts...always have, always will. When I stood infront of the fans in Plan B, we told eveyone the club was $250k in debt (including Directors loans)....we were spot on as we all now know. No-one from TRUST is a Director or shareholder at the club, so we do not reserve any right for inside information...but from what I see in Mr Swan...we have a Chairman who will be frank, honest (and that's tough sometimes) and open to debate when asked.

Hold on Fingers..give me a chance..some of us work 12 hour days.

in2thevalley Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 am

rawlings09 wrote:
Terrace Guy wrote:Leethal,

I can accept that and apologise to any Leam or indeed Reds fans who were offended at me going on the pitch.

UP THE REDS

Fair play to you mate, i thought it was class!

fingers Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:36 am

Bob Marley wrote: At the end of the day, I personally am very satisifed with the interaction between TRUST and Mr Swan.

My views are my views...but I only work in facts...always have, always will.

No-one from TRUST is a Director or shareholder at the club, so we do not reserve any right for inside information...but from what I see in Mr Swan...we have a Chairman who will be frank, honest (and that's tough sometimes) and open to debate when asked.

There's nothing particularly wrong in what you're saying mate, we're all entitled to our views, but the quotes I've selected here suggest that you personally believe what you are told and don't see the need for statements to be justified, such is your faith in the current board.

Would that be fair to say?

The reason I ask is we are hearing some conflicting arguments - you say the club is run strictly on a budget of 250 in a sustainable manner, but these comments from Chris Swan suggest things are not yet sustainable.

Chris Swan said out of the £1 increase in admission, 80 pence would be absorbed by paying for heating and lighting on a match day.

He said: “Electricity prices have risen in the last few years from £6,000 per annum to £18,000 and just to turn the floodlights on costs £120 an hour, so most of the increase will go to cover this.

“In addition, the gate money we receive only pays a third of the players wages so we need to address this because at the moment we would need double the attendance to cover the playing budget, which is very competitive at this level.

“Off the field, we put in £115,000 to cover creditors when we first took over the line and have spent around £90,000 just refurbishing the bar and boardroom, with £35,000 spent on the staircase.

“We are happy to put our own money in and continue to do so and the club is now running debt free with a little bit of money in the bank.

“But long term it needs to be sustainable and that means we need more people coming through the turnstiles and more people booking the bar for events such as anniversaries and birthdays.

“The playing budget is meant to be covered by gate receipts which explains the increase of a pound, which is the first in a number of years and when compared to the cost of living in the same period, is relatively small."

A very competitive budget that the gate receipts only cover a third of - now I don't have a problem with this, what Chris Swan chooses to do with his money is his business, and most clubs at this level are propped up in this manner.

However, as Chair of TRUST you have been telling us how great things are, how it is being run within its means - it clearly is not.

My concern is that Chris Swan has always said that the club must run within its means. He is a shrewd business man who has invested a lot of money into the Reds. How long will he wait spending time, money and effort if he's not seeing a return? From the public statements that have been made by the Swan's they don't sound as if they'll be very patient:

Writing in the programme for the Banbury United cup game, she [Sallie Swan]said afterwards was the closest she had come to thinking of selling the club.

She said: “If the fans are not behind us after we have invested over £250k of our own money in it the what else is there left for us to do?

“I do not get paid for being at the club which I can cope with, but if the people are not with us then what is the point?

To conclude, you're painting the picture as being much rosier than it is, which doesn't help the supporters, it doesn't help the Swans and it doesn't help the club.

You know how hard it is to drum up support, if everyone thinks its all great and the nice rich man Mr Swan will take care of it then they'll only turn up as and when there's a big game, etc.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Mr Swan is happy to put his own money in long term despite what he's said, but its not the impression I get, and the image you are portraying that the club is on its own two feet is clearly wrong.

Bob Marley Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:55 am

For sure, income has increased (advertisng boards, bar, functions) but even on with a playing budget based on 250 peeps, there is still a massive gap due to no shirt sponsor. no financial support from TRUST and no tenant etc...you where part of plan B, you know the expenditure and for sure you don't have to be Einstein to see the Directors must be subsidizing the club.

Is the club better than it's ever been financially?

1. Do we owe $80k to the council?
2. Are the players paid everyweek?
3. Do we have winding up orders against the club?
4. Do we take out loans with a monthly payment of $800?
5. Do the players travel to away games in an executive coach?
6. Do we have beer in the clubhouse?
7. Do we have heating / water / power?

You decide.

fingers Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:21 am

The club certainly appears to be in much better shape, and I'm not saying that it isn't.

Assuming that all of those statements are true (and I have no reason to believe they wouldn't be) then it is clear that the Swans have invested a lot of money - so how long before they grow tired of propping the club up to the tune of even more money?

Again I point to the fact that Chris Swan said the club has to be sustainable - if the gate receipts are covering one third of the playing budget alone then that is quite some way off sustainable.

You've been around the Reds long enough mate - do you think the gate revenue is about to treble any time soon? What happens if it doesn't?

Bob Marley Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:30 am

As a very astute business man, I would anticipate Mr Swan knew exactly the investment required to support the Reds financially, whilst the infrastructure around the club was improved.

What he would not have anticipated is the historic problems with local businesses that where sh*t on by previous regimes (not paying, promises etc).

I think we can see the financial void will be filled with the possible 3G pitch and increased activity calendar supported by all sections around the club.

I know that benchmarking visits/activities have been conduted and maybe we will see something different very soon?

Even if Mr Swan pulled out tomorrow...the difference between now and last March, is the difference between night and day.

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