Stick or twist?

MM...how can I put this politely?

I can't....fluff off you sh*t stirring bell end.

Bob Marley wrote:MM...how can I put this politely?

I can't....fluff off you sh*t stirring bell end.

Just the kind of pathetic reply i expected from you Bob, the Hart's remember your first name and you get a little tingle down below.

There are some wonderful people working around the clock for Redditch one or two have written to me via this forum and they deserve support, i don't think they want anything too special, just for some people to put in a bit more effort and commitment.

The pre-season push for season tickets was a joke, the club web site could not post any news to supporters because they had none to post. At a time when the club should have been pushing to attract a guaranteed income they did nothing and yet you come on here having a pop at people for not bothering to show up for games. I think you have missed the point the effort to attract support was pre-season and the club did very little.

Why did the club split into two, can you explain that.

I am not stirring i am just sick of reading your one sided posts. At the end of the day if you can't get your club web site running properly what hope do you have. The club should invest in the person running it who no doubt is doing the best they can under the circumstances, perhaps even employ an apprentice...........

Any way Bob i did not come on to stir i came on to offer an informed opinion that happens to differ to yours, the only difference is i can argue my point because it has back bone. All you can do is stand there throwing insults because your posts just don't hold up, try supporting the club and the people doing there best to keep things going.

I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

For the uncommitted I think this says it all!

oldred wrote:

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

For the uncommitted I think this says it all!

It says it for a lot of the committed as well, judging by the way attendances have fallen. Surely someone in charge at the club can see that we are simply not offering value for money, and that is pretty much the worst thing you can do when running a business.

Look at it like this. If you shop at Aldi or Lidl you get reasonable stuff but it's probably not top of the range quality, why go there? Because of the low prices. Shop at Waitrose or M&S and you expect to pay a bit more money but it should be better quality.

With Reds it's like shopping at Aldi or Lidl and being charged Waitrose or M&S prices. It's quite simple in business, you gets what you pays for, we are not getting what we pay for and the customers (ie supporters) are deserting in droves.

Much as I admire the work that Chris and Sallie Swan are doing I really hope they can see the problem and do something about it. We wouldn't be having this discussion if we were top of the league in a smart stadium and we wouldn't be having this discussion if we are where we are but charging 6 or 7 quid to get in but at the moment it's the worst of both worlds.

Surely we are better off with 300 there every game paying even only a fiver, than 100 or so paying a tenner. With more people there you can always get them to spend a bit more on programmes, food kiosk, club shop, behind the bar etc. The other big plus is the better atmosphere, better support for the players, and consequently better all round match day experience for everyone. Going down there with only a scattering of people round the ground on a winters day is frankly a rather depressing (and too expensive) experience at the moment. No wonder Laura won't be coming back !

Oh and by the way I do apologise to Aldi and Lidl if I have caused offence !!

Quite right.

When the admission fee was first raised to £10, Mr. Swan justified the increase by quoting examples of how much it costs to run the club. At the time I agreed with the decision. Now, in hindsight, I admit that I was wrong to think it was a good idea.

I acknowledge that gate receipts alone are not enough to sustain Redditch United. But that is true for any football club. But you can’t charge your customers what you think is their ‘share’ of running the club / business and expect that strategy to work. You have to charge your customers what the product is worth.

We have failed to do that. To be fair to the club, Redditch United are far from being the only club in the country to overcharge it’s paying customers. That said, we have far, far fewer than most who are willing to do so.

We are never going to progress if we rely solely on match day revenues. The club needs huge investment in non match-day revenue streams to progress. I remain patient that this will happen through the 3g pitch, club house use etc. Maybe this will then take the pressure off the necessity to charge high match day admission fees?

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

Fair play for,your views Laura and a big pity that somebody new has come to a game and gone home thinking this. Not a good advert but I can see where you are coming from. Personally I park where it is free and I no longer buy a golden goal ticket or a programme as I pay £10 entrance and maybe have a cup of coffee and a bite to eat.

One of the reasons I now refuse to buy a golden goal ticket is the lack of announcement of the time of the goal or who wins this.

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

With all due respect, this to me seems like a post from a disgruntled Redditch fan, for the reasons that it seems that the points that have been highlighted are the points that have been recently discussed on here, i know the club isn't any great shakes at the moment, but it's incredibly rare that you'll come back from a game with no positives at all?

For your first visit, you've learned the names of two players, from an out of date player profile in the programme? or did you ask a fan? And surely if you watch a lot of local football then you should be more than used to hoofball?

To me, this is either a redditch fan posting, or we REALLY are up the sh*t creek if this is how an outsider would see it

You could be right Rawlings, but Laura12 did say first time this season (twice) which would suggest to me it's not the first time ever!!

rawlings09 wrote:

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

With all due respect, this to me seems like a post from a disgruntled Redditch fan, for the reasons that it seems that the points that have been highlighted are the points that have been recently discussed on here, i know the club isn't any great shakes at the moment, but it's incredibly rare that you'll come back from a game with no positives at all?

For your first visit, you've learned the names of two players, from an out of date player profile in the programme? or did you ask a fan? And surely if you watch a lot of local football then you should be more than used to hoofball?

To me, this is either a redditch fan posting, or we REALLY are up the sh*t creek if this is how an outsider would see it

I think it's genuine but either way, the points raised are spot on.

i read her post nodding in agreement at every criticisism point raised, so regardless of whether or not it was a genuine 1st time visit post, it is a reality post that the majority unfortunatley will agree with.

watched stourbridge v evesham last night, crowd of about 180 paying £6 each to watch a cup game, free parking, decent game, an ok atmosphere, definatley walked away thinking i would visit again............ i watched redditch about 2 months ago and said i wouldnt go back until major changes were made regarding facilities/players/management/ticket prices etc, and it looks like alot of regulars are doing the same

I'm not disputing the issued raised as i also agree with that laura12 said, however, i just think it's unlikely that for a first visit anywhere there are no positives at all that have been taken from her visit to the valley!

Take a look at tho101's post, i'm assuming that was one of the first times they've gone to stourbridges ground, whether as a neutral or following redditch, and they've come back with only positives.

I could be wrong but it seems like a post to prove a point rather than an experience.

Who cares anyway?! They loyalties of the hardcore fans are being pushed to the limits... something has to give!

I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

arsene wrote:I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

I think this about sums it up.

mattim wrote:

arsene wrote:I agree the loyal fans are being pushed to the limit. For the first time in my "Redditch United Career" (leaving aside the CH incident!) I am beginning to wonder wheter I can really be arsed to make the effort for a home game on Saturday. There is no atmosphere at the ground these days, the feeling is, it seems to me, one of a club in decline which is sad considering the high hopes we had at the takeover. I wish I could be more positive but at the moment it seems that everything and everyone are just going through the motions. I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

Oh, well, got it off my chest! No doubt I'll be there on Saturday!

I think this about sums it up.

Spot on. I am not going on Saturday as I am off out but if I was going to watch any football I would be going to watch Stratford v Loughborough University.

arsene wrote: I think we need a clear Mission Statement of what the ambitions are for the club on the playing side. (We've heard a lot of what's happening off the field.

I think we need a clear mission statement of the ambitions of the Club in general! At the time of the takeover, it was thought that we would be playing conference football within 5 years, 2 seasons later and we're playing in the Evo Stik south infront of an average home gate of 198? (fingers?) which leaves us with 3 years to complete 2 promotions and confirmation that those ambitions where, as most of us knew anyway, ridiculous.

Im trying to put my finger on where it went wrong? I believe it could be that in the efforts to improve things off the pitch, what happens on the pitch has been completely neglected, the powers that be seem to have forgotten the most important thing to every last person on this forum and every last person who ambles through the gates at a home game and that is we are supporters of Redditch United FOOTBALL Club! We go to the Valley Stadium to watch FOOTBALL, we have a drink in the bar after the final whistle and talk about the FOOTBALL that we've just watched! I can't speak for everyone here, but i don't care much for Corporate deals, money makers and sponsorship deals and the business side of things is something not many of us grasp properly but it seems to have engulfed both sides.

I go to watch football, i come back to watch football! Football Football fluffing football! If we were all business men, millionaires and corporate people then we'd go in our droves to the club, because the business would be good and we'd all understand it and be happy, but we're football fans, and the football is sh*t, and we're not happy! Off the pitch could be the best we've ever known it to be, on the pitch, it isn't and i think this is the main reason things are how they are.

Redditch United has the potential to make money, and you can have the best function room in the world, the best ground in the world, the best 3g facilities and whatever else, but it's what happens on the pitch that will determine the future of the club.

I could be wrong though!

rawlings09 wrote:

laura12 wrote:I visited the valley stadium last tuesday to watch you for the first time this season, I watch alot of Non league football in the area. So I thought I would pay a visit to watch you the first time this season.

I dont like to say this but I will not be coming back it cost me £11 pounds to get in ( WITH THE CAR PARKING) I dont know many clubs at this level that charge!! I get there brought a programe at the cost of £2 which is one of the worst I have read out of date player information etc. I then expect to hear the team over the tannoy which happens at most clubs at evo stik level. NO i dont.

I have a go 2 goes on the golden goal I like to support the local clubs, The results of that dont come over on the tannoy.

To top it off redditch play very poor football, constant hooping up to the front (Grandison and Dreads) Who worked there socks off to no avail.

The worst £16 Pounds I have ever spent

With all due respect, this to me seems like a post from a disgruntled Redditch fan, for the reasons that it seems that the points that have been highlighted are the points that have been recently discussed on here, i know the club isn't any great shakes at the moment, but it's incredibly rare that you'll come back from a game with no positives at all?

For your first visit, you've learned the names of two players, from an out of date player profile in the programme? or did you ask a fan? And surely if you watch a lot of local football then you should be more than used to hoofball?

To me, this is either a redditch fan posting, or we REALLY are up the sh*t creek if this is how an outsider would see it

Hello, I am not a redditch supporter atall, I watch alot of non league football. Not my first ever visit to the valley stadium, like i said it was my first time this season.

Yes, Rawlings09...we tried the 'concentrate on the football things' and not the infrastructure to support it...it almost killed the club, as you well know.
The members of TRUST will continue to pay for this approach directly until next May.

We all know by now the running costs of the club...to get anywhere close in this league, playing budget is 800/week, minimum.

The club has very little income outside gate admission.
The examples I hear of Stratford etc normally have a tidy little 3G pitch being used 6-10 hours per day.

Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now.

Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.
People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

At the very minimal, fans need to be involved, acknowledged, communciated to.....they can not turn up week in week out doing a guessing game of whos who...no relationship with the team/players/coaches.

The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.

Bob Marley wrote:Yes, Rawlings09...we tried the 'concentrate on the football things' and not the infrastructure to support it...it almost killed the club, as you well know.
The members of TRUST will continue to pay for this approach directly until next May.

We all know by now the running costs of the club...to get anywhere close in this league, playing budget is 800/week, minimum.

The club has very little income outside gate admission.
The examples I hear of Stratford etc normally have a tidy little 3G pitch being used 6-10 hours per day.

Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now.

Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.
People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

At the very minimal, fans need to be involved, acknowledged, communciated to.....they can not turn up week in week out doing a guessing game of whos who...no relationship with the team/players/coaches.

The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.

Can't wait for you to see how it is when you come back over the pond. It is ok saying that you can't keep throwing money at the footballing side BM but at present that must be happening where Mr Swan is supplementing these costs from what the club is generating. Something is rather at present down at the club and the atmosphere has gone and I am afraid to say I do not think this will be back very quickly and neither will a lot of fans.

The club has a choice, treat its customers with the respect they deserve and listen to what they are saying or lose them to other options available in the area. Plenty of better options and when money is tight all around then people will spend it on something more appealing however much you defend them from afar.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say Bob but I think this thread is moving more in the direction of discussing our lack of support and the reasons for it. I'm all for the club being self sufficient but the fact is in order for this to happen we need a lot more paying spectators than we are currently getting. I've followed the club for 40 years and I don't recall crowds getting so low, or so many 'diehards' giving up.

The main reason for this is that we are in to, I reckon, our third season of seemingly endless struggle. In the final BSN season when we were losing every week there was a great 'Dunkirk spirit' amongst the fans and we sung even in defeat. That seems to have completely disappeared and the Valley is a pretty miserable place now it has to be said.

First and foremost we need some results and performances but we do desperately need some realism from the top. You remarked on the Swan's 'financial realism' but from where I'm sitting it seems far from that. We need to be reducing entrance fees, scrapping the car park charges, thinking up various special offers and doing whatever else anyone can think of to get bodies through the gate. At a time when we need to be attracting new support we can't even keep what we've got. If things carry on as they are and even more supporters become disenchanted I can honestly see our crowds down to double figures.

There are a lot of things the Swans have done that needed doing but they are in danger of throwing away all that good work. We will be a financially realistic club playing in an empty stadium the way it's going.

I don't think the fans are that bothered about whether or not Simon Redhead communicates with them, he just needs to get on with it and win some games. It's others at the club who need to address that issue and start getting the fans back on board.

mattim wrote:
The main reason for this is that we are in to, I reckon, our third season of seemingly endless struggle.

And the rest!!!!

I'd put it more at 7-8 years of constant struggle and decline.

There has been very little to get excited about on the pitch for the best part of 10 years. Constant relegation battles, almost non-existent cup runs in any competition that counts. It's been a painfully long time since I've genuinely looked forward to attending games.

Bob Marley wrote:The club has very little income outside gate admission..

That's why the club was split into two parts, why can't you address this and why do you continually ignore the fact the community side of things makes money.

Bob Marley wrote:Mr Swan has brought a financial realism to the club....that has been missing forever....the realism is that the end product generated from the income is well below par and what fans have been 'artificially' been served over the last 15 years....sad, but true.

Mr Swan has divided the club into two parts, one loses money one makes money. Why did he do this Bob and why do most of his press releases focus on football while his efforts seem only to focus on the money making community club.

Bob Marley wrote: I do not believe Mr Redhead is the right man for the job...said it from his 1st term in charge....I still believe it now. Mr Hyde was a gem...kept everyone interested and involved, even when the performances were below par.

Hyde walked away because of Swan, your chasing your tail again Bob.

Bob Marley wrote:People on here slated me for that comment....then use Bumsgrove as the example with Keith Draper openly communicating at every opportunity....at our level, the communication levels are very small....Mr Redhead is not this kind of character.

Keith has to do that to big himself up, Graham is the powerhouse behind Bromsgrove and he say's very little. Anyway Swan should have a press officer at Redditch because they are a much bigger club than Bromsgrove.

Bob Marley wrote:The club is in a downward spiral until this is addressed.

So address it instead of posting waffle, you can start by explaining why the club has been split into two. One part generating income while the other generates very little. Do you even know where the profits made by the community club are going.

Mrs Moor wrote:

So address it instead of posting waffle, you can start by explaining why the club has been split into two. One part generating income while the other generates very little. Do you even know where the profits made by the community club are going.

If you know something MM, then please share with the rest of us where the money is going?.....

I do not understand why people assume that income generated by way of a 3G pitch etc, would lead to an increased playing budget. I seem to remember Mr Swan saying the playing budget was set and any further income would be spent "in the community." We are constantly reminded of the financial outlay the owners have made, so is not likely they would want to see some return on that? I don't know if what Mrs Moor says about the Club being split into two companies is correct but if it is then it would lend credence to the above. Of course MM might be making it up and what I have written could be 100% incorrect. Please look at what happened to Halesowen Harriers who were a club with dwindling attendancies and now no longer exist but have a 3G pitch being used seven days a week. I bet "the community" love it.

The reality is it's Chris Swan's club for which he has paid a lot of money. The couple of times I have met him he seemed very genuine but I guess he will do as he pleases with the club.

ted striker wrote:If no financial support is maintained, attendances would, I believe, fall more rapidly than they are now, the club would quite possibly (maybe almost certainly) end up in freefall, dropping into and through the SL1S&W or SL1C (more on that in a second)

I completely forgot to go back to my other point, which was, in the event that we get relegated from this division, anybody care to take a punt on where we'd end up? Look at the geographical spread of the clubs in the divisions directly below us, and for me it's anybody's guess.

We might be relegated and not know for weeks which way we fall, which would put us behind in terms of player recruitment for the following season, compounding the problems that our lack of financial wherewithal would cause - so I think that whatever happens, the Swans need to ensure that we stay up, even if that means (again) chucking more money into the pot for the closing stages, should it come to that.