Redhead puts his views across/Adverstiser

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Not the first time I have heard the £1000 figure as a playing budget, would neeed a minor miracle to get promoted on that IMO.

“I had been hearing for a few days that they were going to get rid of me so I don’t understand why it couldn’t have been done straight away, before I had started working on next season.

“The meeting lasted literally ten minutes and it was clear that nothing I said was going to change his (Swan’s) mind so it was bit of a waste of time.

I think anyone who was at the forum could tell you the decision was already made at that point.

Sounds rather bitter to me. I can understand that he did an alirght job with the resources available but you cannot say in the paper 'we only got beaten 5-6 nil 3 times whilst I was here' as that is not something you can brag about, we still failed to win a game even when in a few we should have held on to a lead. Either way best of luck to him in the future, he did step into a tough job for us which probably not many would have done.

I have to agree with Simon that £1000 a week budget will not be enough for a promotion challenge. Indeed, I’d go as far as to say that we will be in a relegation dog fight. £1000 a week at the start of this season didn’t get us very far and I’d hazard a guess that the Southern League Premier will not be that much of a lower standard.

If that is all the club can afford to pay and remain sustainable, then of course that is the right way to go. But the club needs to be realistic with its ambitions. Asking for promotion on a weekly budget of £1000 a week will put off prospective, talented managers.

Simon’s probably better off out of it.

£1,000 a week?

Hmm, it was more than that at the start of last season, and we all know what happened, wasn't it £1,200 and we got beat 9-0 by Boston?

It does sound bitter, but as stated, we've taken the lead on numerous occasions, and been 0-0, and still gone on to lose.

3 points out of 45... when it could have been more so many times!

However, other teams could be reducing their wage budgets next season, we could get a load of sponsorships and then it's a different story...

Lets not be negative before we've even started the season. eh?

Its my belief that the Budget is based on income and therefore any figure given at this stage is just a predicted budget, the reason is if there are no books how do they know what the income is?. If a thousand people turn up every week then the wages would shoot up, if 150 people turn up every week who pays the wage?.
Next season whatever the player budget is it will be with a debt free club, so the comparison to starting last season with more money does not make sense to me. There is a hell of a lot of work by a small team to get revenues streaming in off field so I would say the future is looking quite good, this is a long term project that will build and build.
On the point of Redders I think i'd be more unimpressed had he said nothing or that he wasn't disappointed,only drawing and no wins with the players we had is nothing to be too bold about and I still think the right decision was made.
Onwards and upwards.

Jeff, I dont think anyone is going to complain about the budget 'only' being £1,000 especially in terms of only paying what we can afford. Its more about what the clubs expects for that amount, realisticly promotion is not going to happen with that budget and IF that is what the club expects of whoever is in charge then they will more than likely be disappointed.

Poor show in my book.

We all have disappointments in life, but we don't go publicizing issues and personal perceptions to make a point.
Bottom line, no wins in 15 games.

Money is one thing, but what about desire, pride, passion and the will to win?
Not enough fire in the belly for me.

Onwards and upwards.

100% correct Steve.....For Del Boy to say we'll be in a relegation battle with a £1000 is simply unbelievable. Optimism from Del Boy.?.never. It's a football league Del Boy, not a cash race.
I want a Manager who backs himself...who gets team spirit,passion, desire, and works with the brilliant coach we have in Hydey...who gets told it's £1000 budget then thinks... Sod It...'I'm a good enough Manager to do well with this budget,' I want a Manager who sees the potential, who can smell the glory, who negotiates a bigger budget depending on where we are at Christmas knowing he has faith in his ability to be where he wants to be then,...I want a Manager who when he sees a right winger staying out of the game, bottling challenges, giving no cover to our right back, and not getting in the box to crosses from the left wing..I want him to take him off and throw the bloody towel at him.....I want a Manager who jumps up and down when we score...I want a Manager virtually distraught when we lose...I want a Manager to EARN a bigger budget...to feel he's bloody lucky in these hard times to have a £1000 budget..how can you moan people about a £1000 budget when the last guy had nothing???
ANGRY

Agree with Porrohman! Great passion there.

Also agree with Bob Marley
0 wins in 15... if we want people through the gate, and ultimately that's what we need, then winning nothing isn't going to get people there.

I have every confidence in Chris's, Fenners' ability to employ the right manager!

Unfortunatley these things always come out in the press. At least he shows his dissapointment and that is fair play, although I do not agree he is the right manager to move the club forward I would have liked the decision to be made straight after the season finished.

£1k a week will be competitive if you get the right manager in place. Not Martin Sockett or this Woodford manager, not local, have not managed at this level and if Fenners and Swanny appoint either of those blokes then we will be going nowhere but South.

I agree with Porroman in what he says.

This is a very important appointment now to build the future of the club, do not appoint some 2nd rate manager

porrohman wrote:100% correct Steve.....For Del Boy to say we'll be in a relegation battle with a £1000 is simply unbelievable. Optimism from Del Boy.?.never. It's a football league Del Boy, not a cash race.

Of course money guarantees nothing. Just look at Gainsborough Trinity! But there is an extremely strong correlation between finances and success.

I don’t believe that I “moaned” about the budget. Nor was I being negative. I merely stated that the clubs ambition should match the budget.

For arguments sake, £1000 a week for a 20 man squad averages out at £50 per player. Should our new manager assemble a team of players that have us challenging for promotion on £50 a week, what do you think will happen? Another club will come in and offer said inform players £200-£300 a week to move. It’s great that you show such passion and devotion for the club, but do you think that your average non league player cares even a tenth of what you do? NO! They will go where the money is!

I am so glad we are debating whether 1k per week is enough to bring success.....it's better than the debate of whether we can restart the club at the bottom of the pyramid !!

Mr Swan has put 100k of his kids inheritance to save our club....will he make a return? 100% guaranteed : NO

Mr Swan is a winner...he is also not stupid.

The days of spending 4-5k per week only a couple of years ago, almost killed our club...let's not forget that. Do we want a repeat performance?

At the fans forum (not attended by the previous Manager!), Mr Swan carefully acknowledged that the club must be financially independant and he will be the safety net if the budgeted income streams are not achieved.
He presented the profit and loss account to us and clearly stated we have to generate 140k per year to operate (with a playing budget of 1k per month) and the gate income from this season generated 23k towards this.
This leaves a gap of 117k per season to fill....does anyone really expect him to gamble another 144k per season on top of that to have a 'competitive' budget??

Mr Swan wants the 'Wimbledon' spirit of the early to mid 90's...a good manager will spend the budget wisely on the spine of the team and surround them with young legs eager to prove themselves...this may or may not be a successful model but we must, must understand that the club must never be in the position we found ourselves in 6 weeks ago...that must never be allowed to happen again. Mr Redhead wanted more than the budget proposal...on what grounds? and then makes sarcastic comments wishing the new man 'good luck'....I bet Mr Swan has already received more than 20 CV's for the position..maybe more..and I am sure if they deliver on the pitch, Mr Swan will back the right guy and the snowball starts in a positive way..

1k may not be enough....we will see....but do you think the playing budget at Norwich is the same at Leeds, Derby, Middlesboro?

Del Boy 'I merely stated that the clubs ambition should match the budget.'

The EXACT reason why clubs get into financial trouble. Ambition leads Directors of clubs to spend money they can't afford..( look at our previous board..Forinton etc) leading to the inevitable.
I'm sorry but predicting we'll be in a relegation dog fight on £1000 budget is TOTALLY negative.
The club has had NO accounts for 2 years, therefore you can only judge the budget on the period since the new board took over, I think £1000 is a perfectly reasonable starting point for the new season....

Where have I suggested that the budget should be more than £1000 a week?

Where have I suggested that the club should be spending money that it can not afford?

Where have I moaned about the budget?

WHERE???

What I have suggested is that if £1000 is our budget, then the clubs target for the season should be set accordingly i.e. the expectations should be lowered, not that the budget should be increased. Am I not saying it right?

As honest and noble as our budget is, there are still plenty of clubs out there that are still being bankrolled. Yes, inevitably in 5 years it will all go tits up, but in the short term, it’s those clubs who will get the success. Until some kind of ‘Financial Fair Play System’ is introduced in non league football, then there will never be a level playing field between the bankrolled clubs and the self sustainable clubs.

Not based on fact, but on hearsay, estimates, rumors’ etc. I’d guess that the higher budgets next season are going to be around the 4-5k mark. An average budget in the Southern Premier will be around 2-2.5k. 1k a week is going to be at the lower end of the scale in the division. There is a correlation between budgets and success.

The standard of the Southern Premier is not going to much lower than the C.N. Anyone who thinks we will be challenging for promotion on £1000 a week is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I’m not negative. I don’t lack optimism. I am realistic.

Del Boy 'I merely stated that the clubs ambition should match the budget.'

The EXACT reason why clubs get into financial trouble. Ambition leads Directors of clubs to spend money they can't afford..( look at our previous board..Forinton etc) leading to the inevitable.

No, the reason clubs get in trouble is operating an a budget that matches there ambition. Not having ambition which matches the budget which is what Del is saying. There is a MASSIVE difference

[quote="del boy"]Where have I suggested that the budget should be more than £1000 a week?
You haven't. I haven't accused you of that.

Where have I suggested that the club should be spending money that it can not afford?
You haven't. I haven't suggested different. I merely pointed out that's the way clubs get into financial difficulties, by ambition outweighing the finances.

Where have I moaned about the budget?
In stating we'll be in a relegation dogfight with that budget. That, to me, is moaning. You don't know who the next manager is, we all don't, so how can you assume we'll be in a relegation battle? It's all based on the budget with you ...Marley has a great point...look at Norwich City's budget...what was Alfretons budget this year? Did Paul Lambert tell Delia ' Don't even think about promotion with that budget?' No...he gelled a team, brought some decent players in and played his way. If it's all about the budget, what does that say about Managerial ability....you might as well have a monkey in charge if the budgets 5k a week then.

Quite.

You could put my Nan in charge of Manchester United and they will still challenge for the title. A couple of years ago, upon winning the title, a modest Sir Alex said that it was ‘easy at this club, with the players and staff around me’ (or words to that effect).

Likewise, Sir Alex managing at West Ham won’t necessarily have them avoiding relegation.

As I have already said, it is of course possible that we could assemble a winning team. But how do you then stop that team from being ripped apart when other clubs come along and offer to quadruple the players wages?

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. We can reopen debate when the season is underway!

!!

Del..

I am not sure if you were at the fans forum in April, but the question of how we can retain players (contract) to prevent vultures was raised by me and I referred to the list of players exiting the Reds over the last couple of years and going on to greater things.

Contracts at least put off the 'moving for 20 quid' scenarios, but always at a risk to the club.

Mr Swan was vague on this point.

I can’t say that I’m an expert on these matters but as I understand it, a big problem with having contracted players is that you still have to pay the players no matter how tough things are financially. I believe Danny Lewis was still being paid back this season? With non contracted players, you can pretty much just turn around and say, ’sorry we’re having a bad month, we can’t afford to pay you’.

With the previous state of the finances, the club was obviously in no position to guarantee being able to pay the players. Contracts would have done little more than increase the clubs debts. Things are not quite so perilous now. Certainly, it doesn’t seem necessary to put the entire squad on a contract. But if we find ourselves with a young ‘rough diamond’ of some potential, then it seems madness not to.

One can only imagine how much the club could have been paid in transfer fees on the good number of young players who have moved onto bigger and better things. We are always going to lose talented players who will move on to bigger and better things. We may as well make some money out of it!

Bloody hell, Dell...I agree with you!

I think Mr Swan will also see the potential and safeguard any investment where possible...without holding the club to ransom with inflated contracts as we have seen before.

By having the player on contract does prevent the moving for 20 quid..

del boy wrote:I can’t say that I’m an expert on these matters but as I understand it, a big problem with having contracted players is that you still have to pay the players no matter how tough things are financially. I believe Danny Lewis was still being paid back this season? With non contracted players, you can pretty much just turn around and say, ’sorry we’re having a bad month, we can’t afford to pay you’.

With the previous state of the finances, the club was obviously in no position to guarantee being able to pay the players. Contracts would have done little more than increase the clubs debts. Things are not quite so perilous now. Certainly, it doesn’t seem necessary to put the entire squad on a contract. But if we find ourselves with a young ‘rough diamond’ of some potential, then it seems madness not to.

One can only imagine how much the club could have been paid in transfer fees on the good number of young players who have moved onto bigger and better things. We are always going to lose talented players who will move on to bigger and better things. We may as well make some money out of it!

I think Porrohman and Bob Marley are being a bit hard on Del Boy here; all Del is doing is saying it as he sees it, and I for one agree with him. £1000 per week is more likely to see us in the bottom half of the table than the top half, regardless of who we appoint as manager. It is much easier to use good money to make bad signings than it is to sign, and retain, promotion-quality players on £50-75 per week, particularly with the mercenary nature of players and clubs in the game at the moment.

The other problem with signing players on contract terms is that you have to pay them whether they play or not; if someone gets a long-term injury then that's money down the drain. Remember the absolute shambles that was Damien Markman? We signed him on contract terms when he was carrying a cruciate ligament injury, he didn't make his debut for how long? And played how many games? I'm not saying that we shouldn't ever put players on contract, I think that this has to be a key part of protection of Chris's investment; and I'm not saying that we would ever be likely to make the Markman mistake again, I would hope that is a lesson well and truly learned; but contracts are not a panacea.

The budget will be whatever Chris sets it at, and whoever manages the team will be charged with the task of getting the best possible team for that amount of money. We have to trust that Chris, Sallie and Mark can bring in the predicted level of income that, combined with gate money and casual matchday spend, will balance the expenditure and therefore they will not have to reduce the budget to keep the club on an even keel. Beyond that, the club will find its own level where we can be competitive on the field and stable off it, whatever level that might be.

I'm not expecting miracles next season, but a few wins more than last season would be very nice!

We have Business people in charge at the club now, and the fact that we're not going to get wound up next week is enough for me!!

Should be exiting times coming up when the new manager comes in, then players.

Then before we know it'll be pre-season at Bromsgrove

And we'll have a nice pitch, tidier ground and hopefully more to cheer about than last season!

I love debates like these(and i fell off my chair when i realised i agree with delboy in his last post), would be great to see the same passion put into pushing a paint brush this weekend. you see to get the income we need to get a decent squad we need to get the valley looking smart, today i will have virtually completed the bar/lounge but the directors room,changing rooms/tunnel need painting, the club shop refurb needs a completing and the stands need weeding/tidying. so instead of debating on here which is great we can get the jobs done that will solve the very thing we are debating this week, let us the FANS do our bit that will help the club do there bit.